FK General Discussion: What is Vampirism?
Sep. 28th, 2024 10:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
switchbladeeyesIn the Forever Knight universe, what exactly is vampirism? Is it biological? A state of mind? A state of spiritual downfall? Moral downfall? Some mix of these things? Something else?
It seems any hopes Nick could have of curing vampirism necessitate answering this question. Because how can you cure it if you don't know what it is?
Biology: As I recall, in "The Fix", Natalie references something unique about Nick's cells or his DNA or something that she sees as a tell-tale sign of his vampirism. And if that can be corrected, Nick won't be a vampire. The drug in "The Fix" worked at first, but did not work long-term. Is it because they just had not found the right biological cure, or is biology not the "source" of vampirism, but rather just a symptom of it? Natalie's approach in seasons 1 and 2 assumes that a cure will address Nick's biology.
State of Mind: I think this is such an interesting avenue that the show got into in season 3. There is definitely some kind of mind-body connection involved, but how it works is unclear. In "Hearts of Darkness," a traumatized young woman developed a split personality, totally unaware that one of her personalities was a vampire. As a practical matter, the personalities that don't know about the vampire, aren't vampires. We see her do things like eat food. We see the same thing with Nick in "Night in Question" when severe head trauma gave him amnesia. He didn't know he's a vampire so he didn't behave like one. It didn't stick in either event, however.
And then there's Janette. What's up with that? Did she want to be human enough (so she could be with WhatsHisFace and the kid) that she turned human? Was she well and truly human? Was it a state of mind?
State of Spiritual Downfall: That vampires are repelled by religious/spiritual objects is a long-standing aspect of the vampire legend. In the novel Dracula, as I read it, vampirism was unquestionably due to being in a state of spiritual downfall. Mina Harker, who was horribly wronged by Count Dracula, was also the only one to have some sympathy for him. I was struck that for her, tracking him down and killing him was not just because he was doing horrible things, but because if she and her allies could kill him, they could free his soul. Maybe this spiritual downfall angle is the same in FK.
Certainly, Nick sees himself in a state of spiritual downfall, but that seems to be because he sees himself through the lens of the religion that shaped him in his human life. Other vampires don't necessarily share this view. Who's right?
An interesting thing in FK is that vampires do not have to believe in a religion for that religion's objects to repel them. What's up with that? It is challenging to chalk up to "state of mind" when there's still an effect regardless of whether you believe in the religion.
State of Moral Downfall: Are vampires inherently morally "bad" or "evil"? Nick sees vampirism that way. We've seen him express it more than once. Which is interesting because he still chooses to associate on friendly terms with some other vampires. If he thinks they are evil, why is he associating with them?
Vampires certainly have impulses to perform evil deeds. I mean, they get off on murdering people. Yikes. But does the impulse alone make them "evil"? I'm sure we all agree that Nick has done some horrible, evil things (body count likely in the tens of thousands, at minimum!), but is the Nick that we know in the modern era an evil person?
Interestingly, the modern era gives vampires a practical way to avoid their murderous impulses. They don't have to murder humans to drink human blood. Though some of them still do. (I'm looking at you, LaCroix.) If you have a choice to do an evil thing or not do it, and you choose not to, doesn't that suggest you aren't inherently evil?
So what is vampirism? Thoughts? Theories? Any of the above resonate with you?
It seems any hopes Nick could have of curing vampirism necessitate answering this question. Because how can you cure it if you don't know what it is?
Biology: As I recall, in "The Fix", Natalie references something unique about Nick's cells or his DNA or something that she sees as a tell-tale sign of his vampirism. And if that can be corrected, Nick won't be a vampire. The drug in "The Fix" worked at first, but did not work long-term. Is it because they just had not found the right biological cure, or is biology not the "source" of vampirism, but rather just a symptom of it? Natalie's approach in seasons 1 and 2 assumes that a cure will address Nick's biology.
State of Mind: I think this is such an interesting avenue that the show got into in season 3. There is definitely some kind of mind-body connection involved, but how it works is unclear. In "Hearts of Darkness," a traumatized young woman developed a split personality, totally unaware that one of her personalities was a vampire. As a practical matter, the personalities that don't know about the vampire, aren't vampires. We see her do things like eat food. We see the same thing with Nick in "Night in Question" when severe head trauma gave him amnesia. He didn't know he's a vampire so he didn't behave like one. It didn't stick in either event, however.
And then there's Janette. What's up with that? Did she want to be human enough (so she could be with WhatsHisFace and the kid) that she turned human? Was she well and truly human? Was it a state of mind?
State of Spiritual Downfall: That vampires are repelled by religious/spiritual objects is a long-standing aspect of the vampire legend. In the novel Dracula, as I read it, vampirism was unquestionably due to being in a state of spiritual downfall. Mina Harker, who was horribly wronged by Count Dracula, was also the only one to have some sympathy for him. I was struck that for her, tracking him down and killing him was not just because he was doing horrible things, but because if she and her allies could kill him, they could free his soul. Maybe this spiritual downfall angle is the same in FK.
Certainly, Nick sees himself in a state of spiritual downfall, but that seems to be because he sees himself through the lens of the religion that shaped him in his human life. Other vampires don't necessarily share this view. Who's right?
An interesting thing in FK is that vampires do not have to believe in a religion for that religion's objects to repel them. What's up with that? It is challenging to chalk up to "state of mind" when there's still an effect regardless of whether you believe in the religion.
State of Moral Downfall: Are vampires inherently morally "bad" or "evil"? Nick sees vampirism that way. We've seen him express it more than once. Which is interesting because he still chooses to associate on friendly terms with some other vampires. If he thinks they are evil, why is he associating with them?
Vampires certainly have impulses to perform evil deeds. I mean, they get off on murdering people. Yikes. But does the impulse alone make them "evil"? I'm sure we all agree that Nick has done some horrible, evil things (body count likely in the tens of thousands, at minimum!), but is the Nick that we know in the modern era an evil person?
Interestingly, the modern era gives vampires a practical way to avoid their murderous impulses. They don't have to murder humans to drink human blood. Though some of them still do. (I'm looking at you, LaCroix.) If you have a choice to do an evil thing or not do it, and you choose not to, doesn't that suggest you aren't inherently evil?
So what is vampirism? Thoughts? Theories? Any of the above resonate with you?
no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 04:40 pm (UTC)Interesting! It also seems to hold over time. I'm thinking of Divia trapped in the Egyptian tomb. I'm assuming the applicable religion and attendant believers died out long ago, but she couldn't escape until the grave robbers broke the religious symbol on the sarcophagus
I'd disregard the "the vampire has a split personality and thus can forget she's a vampire" episode, because... come on... just nope.
LOL! Fair enough, but I shall not disregard because state of mind is my favorite theory! I gotta take what I can get.
Maybe he didn't really believe that Nick was possessed by a demon in SOB, but he could have thought that he needs to encourage Nick, so he can "fight the demon" with this mindset. I bet he would have said about anything to save Nick
Save Nick from what though?
no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 05:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 06:03 pm (UTC)While I absolutely agree that Lacroix did not believe Nick was possessed when Nick claimed to be at the Raven, I think he had some doubts that it could be true after Nick morphed on the table at Vanderwals. At any rate, I think he was not willing to take a chance on losing Nick if it could possibly be true. I do love that scene.
BTW, does anyone else think that Vanderwal initially thought that they were a couple and that LaCroix had led Nick into that "lifestyle" creating the turmoil and allowing the devil into Nick? I absolutely read the scene that way.
no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 06:23 pm (UTC)Ooh, fascinating take! I'm going to have to rewatch that moment through that interpretative lens.
no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 09:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 06:21 pm (UTC)Nick behaving like a vampire is exactly what LC wants. If Nick wants to chalk it up to being possessed by a demon, it seems like it should be a big "so what" from LC's perspective. If going to an exorcism is gonna shift Nick's mindset and knock him off the vampire trajectory, why would LC do that?
For me, the moment when LC decides to give into Nick's demands to take him to the exorcist is one of the most unexpected things I've seen from him on the show.
I wonder if LC even knows why he did it.
I do think that once he's at the exorcism, he becomes convinced. At which point, he believed he was trying to save Nick from an actual demon.
But why take him in the first place?
You could be right though and LC was trying to save Nick from the belief in a demon. In the Raven, he can see that Nick is greatly distressed, and while that may not have much of a motive for him to help Nick in the past, we're at the part of the show where we see their relationship changing quite a bit. It's not the only moment that LC undercuts his own agenda for Nick's benefit (covering for him in the immediately preceding episode, NiQ, being another such moment).
The show always keeping us on our toes and guessing!
no subject
Date: 2024-09-29 09:05 pm (UTC)I'm sure Lacroix wants him give in into his vampiric nature, but not like this. (And also doesn't want to have to deal with the Enforcers. :D )